Maryland Mall Shooting

[bobbibot]

The use of a "shotgun" was "different." The frustrating part for me is the focus everyone has on "motive." The assumption that if we just knew the motive we could say "well, that does not apply to me" and the false sense of safety that generates. The second frustrating assumption is "he must have been mentally ill." A fairly large percentage of people are diagnosed at one time or another with a mental health problem such as depression, anxiety, PTSD, ADHD, etc. but very few go on a killing rampage.

I really don't give a damn if someone is "mentally ill" -if you go in a public venue with the intent and firepower to harm-you need to be put down right then and there. I think the most frustrating thing of all for me is seeing the fear in the kids eyes that their "home away from home" the Mall had become an unsafe place. I have looked over the "security guards" that were brought in by various companies and my thoughts were along the lines of "you have got to be kidding me."

It is my personal opinion that Malls and similar venues should hire Veteran staffed Armed Security Companies and expect to pay for that service accordingly. We need the protection and soldiers need jobs. The Nation spends millions of dollars training soldiers, and this is a resource we are shamefully wasting. This would not stop all of these random killings, but I am willing to bet it would reduce the incidents from occurring. I think in some cases we would have fewer fatalities because someone would respond who could and would take action. Granted I would hope for careful vetting during the employment process in this capacity, but I truly believe there is a need.

That is my soapbox for the day. I felt this was a place I could say these things without civilians freaking out. I can hear them bleating now...oh no...that sounds like Martial Law or a Police State.

[GhostOverride]

Its ok...get it out. God knows something needs to be done to help in deterring senseless violence and death

[klaws]

Unfortunately there will always be people who do these types of things. Also I'm sure malls and other businesses would just rather hire rent a cops then to actually bring in real soldiers and pay them what they deserve.

[iamthesgt]

Or how about they (along with the wacko state & local governments in states like Maryland) just let people defend themselves with concealed weapons? I've been in several malls, and they almost all prohibit weapons. Not that that stopped me, of course, but it does stop some people.

And in states like MD, CCPs are nigh-impossible to get.

[bobbibot]

Oh, I am all for people being able to defend themselves, but I thought it might actually be easier for the general population of places like Maryland to accept armed military veterans than the average citizen. No, they probably wouldn't want to pay what that kind of security would cost. I am sure this topic has been chewed on these forums so I will say no more.

[iamthesgt]

Oh, I am all for people being able to defend themselves, but I thought it might actually be easier for the general population of places like Maryland to accept armed military veterans than the average citizen. No, they probably wouldn't want to pay what that kind of security would cost. I am sure this topic has been chewed on these forums so I will say no more.

Unfortunately, most people like this find it hard to chew on ANYONE with a gun.

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[MikaelTyson]

Or how about they (along with the wacko state & local governments in states like Maryland) just let people defend themselves with concealed weapons? I've been in several malls, and they almost all prohibit weapons. Not that that stopped me, of course, but it does stop some people.

And in states like MD, CCPs are nigh-impossible to get.

My ccp was incredibly easy to get. I carry everywhere. Church, liquor store, movie theatre, bank, mall. It makes no difference to me. If a store prohibits firearms, i don't give them my business.


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[RogueScot]

I've been in several malls, and they almost all prohibit weapons. Not that that stopped me, of course, but it does stop some people.

I don't know how it is in MD, or in other states, but in my state there are only a few places you can't carry a gun by law. Government buildings, schools and bars. Other places can put up all the signs they want, but they don't have the force of law. The law only states they have the right to put up the sign. I carry anyway. If someone were to see my gun, they could ask me to leave. If I refused, I could be charged with trespassing and then I would be violation of a law and in danger of losing my CCP.

[iamthesgt]

I don't know how it is in MD, or in other states, but in my state there are only a few places you can't carry a gun by law. Government buildings, schools and bars. Other places can put up all the signs they want, but they don't have the force of law. The law only states they have the right to put up the sign. I carry anyway. If someone were to see my gun, they could ask me to leave. If I refused, I could be charged with trespassing and then I would be violation of a law and in danger of losing my CCP.

Yeah in AL it's the same way. Gov't buildings carry force of law. Apparently the gun-free school zones act doesn't always apply to CCP holders, but I'm not going to chance it. (That's what I've read from a few different lawyers, and from my limited reading of the law).

In AL, colleges' signs don't carry force of law either, so all they can do is ask you to leave (in theory...I never wanted to chance it so was very careful when I carried on my college. When I went there, they didn't have any signs, just "rules" on the website. This year they added signs for some reason).

The trespassing rule applies here too. (Bars in AL are not enforced by law, though a fair amount check for weapons and I'm pretty sure none allow them)

[comanche_warior]

In California it truely depends on where you live. I got it easily because my sheriff believes in the right of self-defense. If I went south or north to try and get it, it would be near impossible to get it. The college here has a sign that says they are prohibited but I lock mine in a lock box in my car anyways. I have a huge problem with the security at the one campus I go to because they allow the homeless/tweakers to go and roam around through the campus. I've walked in the bathrooms just to find a guy sleeping in the stall. Yeah I feel really safe....

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[iamthesgt]

In California it truely depends on where you live. I got it easily because my sheriff believes in the right of self-defense. If I went south or north to try and get it, it would be near impossible to get it. The college here has a sign that says they are prohibited but I lock mine in a lock box in my car anyways. I have a huge problem with the security at the one campus I go to because they allow the homeless/tweakers to go and roam around through the campus. I've walked in the bathrooms just to find a guy sleeping in the stall. Yeah I feel really safe....

Yeah too bad the conservative counties like that are trodden down by the wackos in the big cities. The places where I'd want it (LA, SD, SF) you pretty much can't get it

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[JTFRYE]

When I was in San Diego I got denied for mine because I wasn't law enforcement. That's how the sheriffs department there decides on who gets ccw or not


Sent from the hills of despair.

[jxspyder]

When I was in San Diego I got denied for mine because I wasn't law enforcement. That's how the sheriffs department there decides on who gets ccw or not


Sent from the hills of despair.

That sucks. Mine was pretty easy, since WA is fairly well regulated, none of that pick and choose who gets one bullshit. Plus my cousin is a deputy sheriff where I was residing at the time, so we caught on on family and it was waiting for me day of.

Sent from the muddy banks of the Wishkaw

[JTFRYE]

Nice! I'm in Virginia now and they are pretty lenient when it comes to getting one, especially for military


Sent from the hills of despair.

[iamthesgt]

By law, it's at Sherriff's discretion in AL, but in practice they're not denied to anyone (barring a criminal record). Nice thing is state law is only 18. Most counties are 21, but the county where my brother goes to college (Lee) just lowered the age to 19.

[RogueScot]

By law, it's at Sherriff's discretion in AL, but in practice they're not denied to anyone (barring a criminal record). Nice thing is state law is only 18. Most counties are 21, but the county where my brother goes to college (Lee) just lowered the age to 19.

Well, I don't know how that works. By federal law you can't buy a handgun until you are 21.

[hiddnk1ller4]

Well, I don't know how that works. By federal law you can't buy a handgun until you are 21.

As a concealed carrier I have been in these rules a ton because of traveling I would really like to know how the federal law is 21 and they get away with 19?

[iamthesgt]

As a concealed carrier I have been in these rules a ton because of traveling I would really like to know how the federal law is 21 and they get away with 19?

There's no federal law for concealed carry permits. Totally state-decided.


Well, I don't know how that works. By federal law you can't buy a handgun until you are 21.

Yeah, it's weird, and it doesn't make much sense, but though you can't buy handguns or handgun ammunition until 21, you can be legally in possession of/own both at 18. So my dad could buy me a handgun and bullets at 18, and I could own it (and it wouldn't be a straw purchase because I don't fall into the category of persons ineligible to own the firearm).

Makes no sense, but that's the law

[RogueScot]

Yeah, it's weird, and it doesn't make much sense, but though you can't buy handguns or handgun ammunition until 21, you can be legally in possession of/own both at 18. So my dad could buy me a handgun and bullets at 18, and I could own it (and it wouldn't be a straw purchase because I don't fall into the category of persons ineligible to own the firearm). Makes no sense, but that's the law

That is correct. I looked up the law. I as an FFL can't sell you one, or ammo, but here is the actual law concerning possession from Title 18:

4. Hand Gun Possession
a. A person under 18 years of age is a juvenile under Federal law and may not possess a handgun or handgun only ammo, §§ 922 (x)(2), (x)(3), & (x)(5), but exceptions exist, see Section C.11.
b. Possess - A person 18 years of age or older may possess a HG (pistol, revolver).
c. Purchase - A person 18 years of ageor older may purchase a HG from a non-licensee (not a gun dealer) who resides in the same State as the purchaser.
d. Gift / Loan- A person 18 years of ageor older may receive a HG as a gift or loan from a non-licensee who resides in the same State as the recipient.
e. Outside State of Residency - A person may not receive a HG from a non-licensee who resides in another State, except by:
1) Will or intestate succession, § 922 (a)(5)(A) giver, § 922 (a)(3)(A) receiver, or
2) Temporary loan or rental for lawful sporting purposes, § 922 (a)(5)(B), or
3) The non-resident may send or deliver the HG (see § 1715, HGs non-mailable) to an FFL in the receiver’s State for purchase from the FFL, § 922 (a)(2)(A).
f. It is a felony violation to willfully violate the residency laws: § 922 (a)(5) transferor’s violation, § 922 (a)(3) receiver’s violation, up to 5 years in prison.

[iamthesgt]

That is correct. I looked up the law. I as an FFL can't sell you one, or ammo, but here is the actual law concerning possession from Title 18:

4. Hand Gun Possession
a. A person under 18 years of age is a juvenile under Federal law and may not possess a handgun or handgun only ammo, §§ 922 (x)(2), (x)(3), & (x)(5), but exceptions exist, see Section C.11.
b. Possess - A person 18 years of age or older may possess a HG (pistol, revolver).
c. Purchase - A person 18 years of ageor older may purchase a HG from a non-licensee (not a gun dealer) who resides in the same State as the purchaser.
d. Gift / Loan- A person 18 years of ageor older may receive a HG as a gift or loan from a non-licensee who resides in the same State as the recipient.
e. Outside State of Residency - A person may not receive a HG from a non-licensee who resides in another State, except by:
1) Will or intestate succession, § 922 (a)(5)(A) giver, § 922 (a)(3)(A) receiver, or
2) Temporary loan or rental for lawful sporting purposes, § 922 (a)(5)(B), or
3) The non-resident may send or deliver the HG (see § 1715, HGs non-mailable) to an FFL in the receiver’s State for purchase from the FFL, § 922 (a)(2)(A).
f. It is a felony violation to willfully violate the residency laws: § 922 (a)(5) transferor’s violation, § 922 (a)(3) receiver’s violation, up to 5 years in prison.

Yep that's it. A lot of people don't know that.

[Gunnut88]

Here in Mt we can Open or Conceal Carry. Conceal Carry requires a permit when inside city limits, outside of city limits no permit is necessary. I personally choose to open carry because I REFUSE to pay in order to exercise my right to carry. No different than the blacks having to pay a poll tax in order to vote during the Jim Crow era. Open carry may not be the most tactically sound choice but it works for me. When we can conceal carry without a permit or the permits are free then I will conceal carry. If more people carried these idiots would "spring a leak" as soon as they tried something stupid.

[RogueScot]

The only problem I see with open carry is if I were a bad guy, I would shoot the person with an obvious weapon first. I think it makes you a target rather than serves as a deterrent, but I understand your stance on paying a fee.

[iamthesgt]

The only problem I see with open carry is if I were a bad guy, I would shoot the person with an obvious weapon first. I think it makes you a target rather than serves as a deterrent, but I understand your stance on paying a fee.

I agree. I support the right to open carry, but I just think it's a bad idea. But I understand your stance too.

[Gunnut88]

The only problem I see with open carry is if I were a bad guy, I would shoot the person with an obvious weapon first. I think it makes you a target rather than serves as a deterrent, but I understand your stance on paying a fee.

I agree that if it were a truly determined bad guy, not a little street punk, I would probably be the target. The closest we have here to that would be the local biker gang but I have already settled my issues with them (tire iron to the knees works wonders). I would much rather myself be the target than someone who has no experience dealing with an armed threat. Whenever I am out and about I watch everyone ( my wife hates it and refuses to go to the mall with me) and go through in my head how I might neutralize anyone should they become a threat. I think keeping your head on a swivel at all times will pretty much negate any threat that might be out there. Anyone that chooses to open carry should check out blackhawk holsters they make the same one that CID uses. It requires you to move the gun in a particular way to even pull the gun from the holster allowing for maximum weapon retention. Regardless of how you choose to carry just do it, don't do business in places that won't allow it and you never know you may be the reason a mass shooting is stopped.

[comanche_warior]

Lets see for me to get mine renewed I have to pay the range master for his signature which is $65 then I have to pay the fee through the county which is $72. But I think its money well spent because I feel safe. My mom doesn't understand why I like to carry but she doesn't get all freaked out about it.

Sent from my porcelain throne

[Gunnut88]

Lets see for me to get mine renewed I have to pay the range master for his signature which is $65 then I have to pay the fee through the county which is $72. But I think its money well spent because I feel safe. My mom doesn't understand why I like to carry but she doesn't get all freaked out about it.

Sent from my porcelain throne

I agree that it is money well spent but we should not have to spend that money in the first place. Paying money to exercise a right makes it a privelege, privelege's can be taken anytime. I would much prefer conceal carry mainly because with the weather like it is right now I can't open carry. I just refuse to pay the government so that they will allow me to exercise my right to carry. That is just my personal opinion. When it comes to deciding to carry a gun everyone has to make their own decision on what they are comfortable with.

[comanche_warior]

I agree that it is money well spent but we should not have to spend that money in the first place. Paying money to exercise a right makes it a privelege, privelege's can be taken anytime. I would much prefer conceal carry mainly because with the weather like it is right now I can't open carry. I just refuse to pay the government so that they will allow me to exercise my right to carry. That is just my personal opinion. When it comes to deciding to carry a gun everyone has to make their own decision on what they are comfortable with.

I agree with what you're saying big time, I'd rather open carry then conceal sometimes. I'm a pretty big guy though I'm getting smaller its hard to hide a sub compact pistol. While it being comfortable luckily I found a nice holster to use. But I can also see their reason for doing it in California. You pay the fee and with that they do an extensive background check on you. Then you have to do an interview with a sheriff Lt. By that I hope that they aren't allowing nut jobs to have a concealed carry. But this day in age I'm glad my sheriff is allowing us to carry concealed even if I have to pay. Hopefully I can get a good job opportunity else where besides California and I don't have to deal with their bs much longer.

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[andrewwfrye]

These shooting are getting ridiculous to say the least, no comment really on them.


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[jxspyder]

I agree with what you're saying big time, I'd rather open carry then conceal sometimes. I'm a pretty big guy though I'm getting smaller its hard to hide a sub compact pistol. While it being comfortable luckily I found a nice holster to use. But I can also see their reason for doing it in California. You pay the fee and with that they do an extensive background check on you. Then you have to do an interview with a sheriff Lt. By that I hope that they aren't allowing nut jobs to have a concealed carry. But this day in age I'm glad my sheriff is allowing us to carry concealed even if I have to pay. Hopefully I can get a good job opportunity else where besides California and I don't have to deal with their bs much longer.

Sent from my porcelain throne

Move north. WA is awesome.

Sent from the muddy banks of the Wishkaw

[iamthesgt]

Move north. WA is awesome.

How awesome is it overall to guns? I've considered trying to get assigned to WA because of the awesome Ultimate in the Seattle area, but wasn't sure about gun laws (and I'm a year or two from that point anyway).

[Gunnut88]

WA is fairly lenient. They have open carry without a permit which includes long guns if you so choose( I wouldn't but some people do). No waiting period. Just make sure never to buy guns at a pawn shop in WA, at least Spokane area, because they will make you pay for it before they do background check then keep the money if you get denied for some reason. Don't OC in Seattle unless you want to be harassed by the cops there because they will. Spokane it is fine to OC cops there tend to watch and see if they have a reason to bother you or not. Only got bugged by one cop there and that was just because he was curious about what I was carrying.

[jxspyder]

WA is fairly lenient. They have open carry without a permit which includes long guns if you so choose( I wouldn't but some people do). No waiting period. Just make sure never to buy guns at a pawn shop in WA, at least Spokane area, because they will make you pay for it before they do background check then keep the money if you get denied for some reason. Don't OC in Seattle unless you want to be harassed by the cops there because they will. Spokane it is fine to OC cops there tend to watch and see if they have a reason to bother you or not. Only got bugged by one cop there and that was just because he was curious about what I was carrying.

Basically this. Seattle basically sucks, but outside of that its fine. And yeah, pawn shops are terrible. Unless you know you're good or have a CCW, in which case you can walk out with possession.

Is probably the one aspect I like the most. I have a CCW. If I buy a gun, I walk out with that gun.

Sent from the muddy banks of the Wishkaw

[iamthesgt]

No hi-cap mags or registration requirements, right?

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[jxspyder]

No and kind of. Pistol sales are reported to local law enforcement by the dealer. But personally registering? No.

Sent from the muddy banks of the Wishkaw

[jxspyder]

Also, local law can't be more restrictive than state. So no county or city law can trump state open carry rights.

Sent from the muddy banks of the Wishkaw

[Gunnut88]

Also important since Native American Reservations are all over WA, never carry your gun onto a reservation. There rules are completely different due to tribal sovereignty. For example the Collville Reservation which includes part of Omak DOES NOT allow open carry by anyone except cops. In order to carry you have to have a tribal ccw which requires that you have a state ccw. If you accidentally violate this they can throw you in the tribal prison for up to 20 years. Things can get pretty confusing when you start dealing with reservations and you can end up on a rez without even knowing it due to poor signage.