New Mass Legislature(Not trying to be political)

[indyred99]

Ok I will tread lightly again,
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/mass_legislatur.html?p1=News_links





The Massachusetts Legislature has approved a new law intended to bypass the Electoral College system and ensure that the winner of the presidential election is determined by the national popular vote.

"What we are submitting is the idea that the president should be selected by the majority of people in the United States of America," Senator James B. Eldridge, an Acton Democrat, said before the Senate voted to enact the bill.

Under the new bill, he said, "Every vote will be of the same weight across the country."

But Senate minority leader Richard Tisei said the state was meddling with a system that was "tried and true" since the founding of the country.

"We've had a lot of bad ideas come through this chamber over the years, but this is going to be one of the worst ideas that has surfaced and actually garnered some support," said Tisei, who is also the Republican candidate for lieutenant governor.

The bill, which passed on a 28-to-9 vote, now heads to Democratic Governor Deval Patrick's desk. The governor has said in the past that he supports the bill, said his spokeswoman Kim Haberlin.

Under the law, which was enacted by the House last week, all 12 of the state's electoral votes would be awarded to the candidate who receives the most votes nationally.

Supporters are campaigning, state by state, to get such bills enacted. Once states accounting for a majority of the electoral votes (or 270 of 538) have enacted the laws, the candidate winning the most votes nationally would be assured a majority of Electoral College votes. That would hold true no matter how the other states vote and how their electoral votes are distributed.

Illinois, New Jersey, Hawaii, Maryland, and Washington have already approved the legislation, according to the National Popular Vote campaign's website.

The current Electoral College system is confusing and causes presidential candidates to focus unduly on a handful of battleground states, supporters say. They also say that the popular vote winner has lost in four of the nation's 56 elections.

Presidential candidates now "ignore wide swaths of the country" they consider strong blue or red states and focus their campaigning on contested states, Eldridge said. If the president were picked by national popular vote, he argued, candidates would spread their attention out more evenly.

"That's really what we're talking about is making sure that every voter, no matter where they live, that they're being reached out to," he said.

Opponents say the current system works. They also point to the disturbing scenario that Candidate X wins nationally, but Candidate Y has won in Massachusetts. In that case, all of the state's 12 electoral votes would go to Candidate X, the candidate who was not supported by Massachusetts voters.

Tisei also criticized the proponents for not following the normal procedures to seek a constitutional amendment.

"The thing about this that bothers me the most is it's so sneaky. This is the way that liberals do things a lot of times, very sneaky," he said. "This is sort of an end run around the Constitution."

The measure passed both branches of the Legislature in 2008 but did not make it all the way through the process.


I for one agree with this. I think the Presidency should be covered under the popular vote and not the electoral college. I don't want this to turn into a pi***ng contest, I will just delete it if it does.

[squidfamily1]

agree

[saviger]

Its just the Dems still upset about loosing in '04

[ASignorelli]

hmmm I just took American Gov, and there are flaws with popular vote. Same as with the electoral college. Me being from California, and with the highest electoral college votes, I'd actually agree with popular voting. So they just don't campaign in the big states. They should campaign across America not just the selected few. I doubt it'll go all the way threw for all the states, but I'd like to see that happen, and maybe more people would vote too. IE a republican voting in California... why would they waste their time? lol but national population however, his vote counts for the whole.

[phillywillis]

That is interesting indyred. I must say I am also for this one.

[MuleTheDestroyer]

i am stationed at Ft. Jackson in South Carolina and this state recently selected a wholly unqualified person named Alvin Greene to be the Democatic representative for the election to the US senate. They picked him because they thought his name sounded like a singers that they like. I have lost faith in America to not be dumb when asked to do a task in large numbers.

Also, we are not a democracy, we are a Republic. (not a huge diference becasue we still democraticaaly elect our leaders).

[saviger]

i am stationed at Ft. Jackson in South Carolina and this state recently selected a wholly unqualified person named Alvin Greene to be the Democatic representative for the election to the US senate. They picked him because they thought his name sounded like a singers that they like. I have lost faith in America to not be dumb when asked to do a task in large numbers.

Also, we are not a democracy, we are a Republic. (not a huge diference becasue we still democraticaaly elect our leaders).

We are a Democratic Republic :geek: :D

[indyred99]

hmmm I just took American Gov, and there are flaws with popular vote. Same as with the electoral college. Me being from California, and with the highest electoral college votes, I'd
actually agree with popular voting. So they just don't campaign in the big states. They should campaign across America not just the selected few. I doubt it'll go all the way threw for all the states, but I'd like to see that happen, and maybe more people would vote too. IE a republican voting in California... why would they waste their time? lol but national population however, his vote counts for the whole.

I would like to see the good and bad about this.

[bcgdragon]

I'd like to see a population density map of the US. I know there are blue and red strongholds and politicians tend to hit the "swing states" harder. I think they would concentrate on the most densely populated areas and avoid the rest. Now we have a similar problem.

Also, without having looked at a population density map, I'd guess most of the population is concentrated on the east coast and west coast. Do those parts of the country lean more left or more right? The populations of New York and California could potentially decide the election.

[indyred99]

I'd like to see a population density map of the US. I know there are blue and red strongholds and politicians tend to hit the "swing states" harder. I think they would concentrate on the most densely populated areas and avoid the rest. Now we have a similar problem.

Also, without having looked at a population density map, I'd guess most of the population is concentrated on the east coast and west coast. Do those parts of the country lean more left or more right? The populations of New York and California could potentially decide the election.

Hmm Good point! I would like to see everyone elses points on this issue is the Popular vote a good idea or should we stay with the electoral college?

[MaximusR3]

i don't vote for 2 reasons:

1. because if i didn't vote then i have no right to complain right? lets me avoid nearly all political debates this way :D

2. The electoral college. I know my personal vote doesn't mean anything because regardless of the outcome of the popular vote, they can and will vote as they see fit. Thus I know that my personal vote won't make a difference anyways and even if it did, i come back to my first reasoning.



is this a bit selfish and un-patriotic of me? probably but the stance i take is no matter how bad of a job i think they are doing i know they are doing better than i would since i have no upbringing in politics or any political schooling of any sort outside of high school government, i'd be lost in their position and probably would make a ton of decisions that people wouldn't like. That is just the way of things, sometimes you'll agree, sometimes you'll disagree and nothing i can do will change that.

[David_3033]

I like the idea of the popular vote.

[saviger]

Ok, here is the rundown from your local Constitutionalist.

We MUST remember why the framers put in the Electoral College!
When you fist look at it, it seems that it takes away the voice of the individual.
If you dive in and study its purpose you find that its the opposite.

Simply put if we went to a pure popular vote; California, Florida, NewYork, and Illinois would decide the President every time. The Electoral College gives a voice to the less populated and rural States.

Ive said it before, I'll say it again. I am a registed INDEPENDENT, I vote based on a canidates view of the Constitution, and wither or not I feel they will live up to their Oath to Defend and Uphold the Constitution of the United States.

[bcgdragon]

Well put, Saviger. That's what I was getting at but couldn't remember enough from my high school government class to to explain it at well as you did.

[toby2533]

Very interesting idea if we went by the popular vote W would have lost to Gore. Things would have been a lot different no Iraq war but we would have been in afghanistan with both feet from the start.

If we did out elections either way the problem with our system right now is a 2 party system. From living all over the world it seems that when you have more then 2 parties you don't have the partisan problems. Since the early 90's this has just increased to such a problem it makes our government unable to get anything done. This I think comes from the 24 hr new networks, my far right friends live and die by what Fox says and my far left watch MNBC all night long. If people would just only give do 20 min a day to look at news like the old days of watching the nightly new or reading a paper in the morining, I think we would be better off. When the vast majority of people watch far right or far left news the real news gets lost.

I would love to see 4 parties in our system a Far right (tea party) Right of center (Rep) left of center (Dem) and a far Left. Then create a coaltion government out of who get elected.

The other problem is no term limits, lets save that for another day.

[airborne509]

Dont agree............

States need to stick with the popular vote within their states. we need to keep states powers seperate from
the federal governments. an example on where this would really be bad is in california. that state has 10 times the people of most states and their beliefs are different than most of the country. so you would let a state like california determine who the president is? i hope not.

look at the shit in arizona now. the federal government should not peddle in a states affairs when it comes to enforcing laws. a major power states have is the electorial college and to not use it would weaken their abilities to fight for individualism within their borders. man there are so many examples of when this idea can go so wrong i cant even begin to list them.

[MuleTheDestroyer]

Dont agree............

States need to stick with the popular vote within their states. we need to keep states powers seperate from
the federal governments. an example on where this would really be bad is in california. that state has 10 times the people of most states and their beliefs are different than most of the country. so you would let a state like california determine who the president is? i hope not.

look at the shit in arizona now. the federal government should not peddle in a states affairs when it comes to enforcing laws. a major power states have is the electorial college and to not use it would weaken their abilities to fight for individualism within their borders. man there are so many examples of when this idea can go so wrong i cant even begin to list them.


The more I think about it the more mixed feelings that I have. What Airborne says does make sense. there are a lot of states that would not matter or be worth anything if this new law passed. But, for example, I am registered in Illinois as a voter, and in the last presidential election there was no way that my vote was gonna matter 'casue president Obama was going to win his home state no matter what. if they switched to what the law was saying then what i vote would matter compared with the nation. Which I do like. if i lived in nebraska though, don't nobody care about that state anymore.

Does anyone know how electoral votes go? is it jsut based on the states population, or does every state get a minimum number and then extra for their population?

And doesn't this kind of thing require a constitutional ammendment? Still confused on how a state can say how the nation is gonna vote.

[toby2533]

This can get a little scary if look back in history this was really the reason the civil war was fought. The fact that the federal vs states. If you talk to someone from the south they called it the war of northern aggression.

We live in scary times with the Gov this is the first time in my life I have seen people discussings Gov issues at the VFW all the time. It has almost started fights in the last couple of months.

I was called one night by an 80 year old who never served not a real Marine because I countered his remarks. Needless to say I blew him off and had the board at the VFW talk to him. Being in a rural area with only two clubs that can serve (VFW an American Legion) he got scared he was going to get kick out so he wrote me a letter. These are the crazy times we live in when only .08% protect the 99.02%.

[indyred99]

Ok after reading some of this it is making me think of why in the hell we should get rid of the electoral college. I couldn't really remember highschool even though its only been 7 years. I think I have to say that maybe I don't agree with it.

[airborne509]

This can get a little scary if look back in history this was really the reason the civil war was fought. The fact that the federal vs states. If you talk to someone from the south they called it the war of northern aggression.

We live in scary times with the Gov this is the first time in my life I have seen people discussings Gov issues at the VFW all the time. It has almost started fights in the last couple of months.

I was called one night by an 80 year old who never served not a real Marine because I countered his remarks. Needless to say I blew him off and had the board at the VFW talk to him. Being in a rural area with only two clubs that can serve (VFW an American Legion) he got scared he was going to get kick out so he wrote me a letter. These are the crazy times we live in when only .08% protect the 99.02%.

He should not be a member of the VFW or the american legion i dont care how old he is.

[saviger]

This can get a little scary if look back in history this was really the reason the civil war was fought. The fact that the federal vs states. If you talk to someone from the south they called it the war of northern aggression.


Yes, very scarry. Not to mention Montana has threatened to SECEDE over Federal Gun laws TWICE in the last year, and once more if the 'Gun Treaty' from the UN gets passed. And the Gov of Texas as said on multipull occasions that 'If the people of Texas choose to secede from the Union, I will support their decision'

Along with 33 states suing the Fed. Govt over Healthcare, and several southern states about to pass similar laws to that of Arz.'s immigration law. I see a bad storm a'comin we need to keep our ear to the ground and watch out for the storm.


*****edit*****
Clarification on Montana:
Montana actually has the right to do this, you see in their contract of statehood with the Fed. govt., it states that "The Second Amendment (The right to keep and bear arms) is recognized as an individual right". And if the Federal Govt. ever tried to say or pass any laws, otherwise Montana would see this as a breach of contract and would set up an independent republic.

[toby2533]

Again I blame the 24 hr new networks. Last weekend the family an I went to a wedding we were in the hotel Sat eveyone sleeping but me drinking good belguim brew. I started to watch this guy Glenn Beck, wow he was telling people to put there boots on and pleading with others to pull there boots back on. I then look him up can't find any reference that he was even in the Military. Now after listening to this for about 30 min and surfing the web, plus now buzzed up, I think he was actually trying to incite public disorder/revoultion. What are your thought on this chacter?

[airborne509]

Again I blame the 24 hr new networks. Last weekend the family an I went to a wedding we were in the hotel Sat eveyone sleeping but me drinking good belguim brew. I started to watch this guy Glenn Beck, wow he was telling people to put there boots on and pleading with others to pull there boots back on. I then look him up can't find any reference that he was even in the Military. Now after listening to this for about 30 min and surfing the web, plus now buzzed up, I think he was actually trying to incite public disorder/revoultion. What are your thought on this chacter?

he is a conservative extremist. i am conservative but i will leave it at that.

[toby2533]

This is what I'm talking about I'm 45 and growing up most of my life you were either a REP or DEM. Now we have centered, left of center, right of center, far left liberal, far right. Then you have like ABN said extremist, do you really think the extremist should be on a national TV show and I saw the same goes for the far left MSNBC the two who areon from 9 to 11 are so far Left. Anymore I think I'm just going to stick with the daily show and the Corbort report for my news.

If you asked me to classify myself I'm a gun toting, whiskey drinking left of center anacharist captlist, blue collar raised college educated white collar worker. With that being in pharmacutical world I'm on summer hours so I'm going to right now, make the first drink of the weekend. HooRah!

[airborne509]

This is what I'm talking about I'm 45 and growing up most of my life you were either a REP or DEM. Now we have centered, left of center, right of center, far left liberal, far right. Then you have like ABN said extremist, do you really think the extremist should be on a national TV show and I saw the same goes for the far left MSNBC the two who areon from 9 to 11 are so far Left. Anymore I think I'm just going to stick with the daily show and the Corbort report for my news.

If you asked me to classify myself I'm a gun toting, whiskey drinking left of center anacharist captlist, blue collar raised college educated white collar worker. With that being in pharmacutical world I'm on summer hours so I'm going to right now, make the first drink of the weekend. HooRah!

i am 40 bro i feel ya and we share the same beliefs but we earned our beliefs by serving. i can smell the George dickle already man. im going to get tore up from the floor up tonight and play some starcraft.

[squidfamily1]

This can get a little scary if look back in history this was really the reason the civil war was fought. The fact that the federal vs states. If you talk to someone from the south they called it the war of northern aggression.


Yes, very scarry. Not to mention Montana has threatened to SECEDE over Federal Gun laws TWICE in the last year, and once more if the 'Gun Treaty' from the UN gets passed. And the Gov of Texas as said on multipull occasions that 'If the people of Texas choose to secede from the Union, I will support their decision'

Along with 33 states suing the Fed. Govt over Healthcare, and several southern states about to pass similar laws to that of Arz.'s immigration law. I see a bad storm a'comin we need to keep our ear to the ground and watch out for the storm.


*****edit*****
Clarification on Montana:
Montana actually has the right to do this, you see in their contract of statehood with the Fed. govt., it states that "The Second Amendment (The right to keep and bear arms) is recognized as an individual right". And if the Federal Govt. ever tried to say or pass any laws, otherwise Montana would see this as a breach of contract and would set up an independent republic.
they might want to rethink that. I don't know what their import/export situation is but other than as a political stunt they would be s.o.l without gov't money.