The Korean Frigate Sinking

[JHC9o]

This is really strange. Ships do not just break apart. They don't just blow up and break apart either.

The news coverage, and the Koreans are really tight lipped, but enough information is out there to make an educated guess.

The ship suffered an explosion, apparantly below the engineering spaces. It was powerfull enough to break the keel and cause the stern to sink rapidly.

The crew says they believe the explosion was external. That makes sense with this type of destruction.

At first there was speculation of an old 50's era mine breaking free and drifting down. That does not make sense. If the ship struck an old style contact, or even magnetic mine, I would expect the damage to be in the bow, not below the engineering spaces.

Then there was speculation that the the deck stored depth charges ignited. Again that does not make sense. What caused them to explode? And even if they did go off, I think it is highly unlikely it would break the ship apart. A explosion on deck will vent most of its energy into the atmosphere, not down into the water.

So, it sounds to me like they either were taken out by an acoustic mine or a torpedo. Either one of those situations would be very troubling for the Pacific Command. The only logical culprit in an intentional attack on the ship is of course North Korea. And my guess is a torpedo, probably and acoustic one that is designed to detonate below the keel.

Now South Korea is asking the UN to oversee their investigation. Why? Because they already know what happened and they need a solid case built to sanction their next move?

Bad juice if that is the case.

So, am I overthinking this, or is there a logical, accidental cause I am overlooking?

[River_Rat_459]

I sure as hell am no naval weapons expert, but what you say is logical. I was in South Korea from 1988-89, and it was nothing strange to hear about the north firing their weapons into the DMZ for the sake of provoking a firefight. Nope, if NK did it, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[hot_karl]

i agree with river, from what i read in the news the north is a ticking time bomb

[A-25TH-ID-VET]

North Korea has always been a pain in the ass and they always will be.

[River_Rat_459]

Well, at least until that psycho family that runs the country is..."ahem"...replaced. Regime change, anyone?

[BlackarrowPSN]

Too bad his likely replacement is just as bad.

It does sound like a torpedo, as stated in this thread. Whether we ever find out the truth of course will depend on whether the SK government thinks it will be advantageous to say anything.

[jack]

It could've been a sea mine, half the shit north korea is using is circa 1945 anyways :lol: :lol: :lol:

[JHC9o]

The New York Times is reporting today the comments of a high ranking defense minister in South Korea who has announced the sinking was caused by a "heavyweight torpedo"

Bastards

[ASignorelli]

GET SOME!

[saviger]

The New York Times is reporting today the comments of a high ranking defense minister in South Korea who has announced the sinking was caused by a "heavyweight torpedo"

Bastards

Not good

[River_Rat_459]

It's been 21 years since I've been to Korea. Looks like I should plan on heading back sometime in the future.

[saviger]

It's been 21 years since I've been to Korea. Looks like I should plan on heading back sometime in the future.

I really hope not. one can only speculate if the Chi-Coms would get involved.

[River_Rat_459]

Looks like the north was definitely trying to provoke:


SKorea Confirms RDX Found in Wreckage
May 10, 2010
Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea -- South Korea's defense minister confirmed Monday that traces of an explosive chemical substance used to make torpedoes were found in the wreckage of a naval ship that sank near the border with North Korea.

The 1,200-ton Cheonan went down in the Yellow Sea on March 26 after an explosion tore through the frigate. Fifty-eight sailors were rescued, but 46 were killed. Seoul has not directly blamed North Korea for the sinking, and Pyongyang has denied involvement. However, suspicion has focused on the North, given its history of provocations and attacks.

South Korean Defense Minister Kim Tae-young said earlier that an initial investigation indicated that a torpedo was likely to blame for the disaster. On Monday, he confirmed media reports that traces of a high explosive were found on the ship's wreckage.

"It's true that RDX, a chemical substance used in making torpedoes, has been detected," he told reporters. "The possibility of a torpedo [attack] has increased, but it's too early to say anything."

The explosive material was detected on the ship's smokestack and in samples of sand from the site, said joint investigation team spokesman Rear Adm. Moon Byung-ok.

"Mines use RDX as well as torpedoes so we need to investigate further to determine which was responsible," he said.

RDX, or research department explosive, is a powerful high explosive often mixed with other explosives such as TNT or TORPEX, and has been widely used since World War II by all countries for military and industrial purposes, Kim said.

The multinational investigation team is analyzing aluminum pieces salvaged from the wreckage to determine whether they are a part of the ship or a torpedo, Kim said.

"It is not easy to tie the debris to weapons like torpedoes because information on other countries' weapons systems is not readily available," he said.

Reports say investigation results are expected within weeks, but officials have said there is no deadline.

The two Koreas remain locked in a state of war because their three-year conflict ended in a truce, not a peace treaty, in 1953.

North Korean artillery sank a South Korean ship in 1967, killing 39 sailors, and their navies have fought three more bloody skirmishes off the west coast since 1999.

Pyongyang also is suspected in a 1983 bombing in Burma that narrowly missed killing then-South Korean President Chun Doo-hwan but left 21 others dead, as well as for the 1987 bombing of a South Korean airliner that killed 115 people on board.

[JHC9o]

I have also heard they recovered some metal. An exotic alloy of aluminum and titanium used in, yup, torpedoes.

Not good. I hope the Chicoms made it very clear to him on his recent train trip that they would not support him or defend him from any retaliation.

What a tough call to make for the S. Korean govt., this has the potential to get really bloody.

[Gooseman_71]

I have flown in this theater of operations it is quite likely In my opinion that they used a midget submarine for this attack. Mines have to be anchored or scuttled in a manner obvious, otherwise they float off into
commercial shipping lanes, but either way it is NK intentions to cause mayhem any way they can.
What you are not hearing in this report that every explosive compound has tracer chemicals in them and they know for certain where the stuff was manufacturered.

[shonyx]

Ahhhhhhhhh, modern forensics... Do people nowadays really think they can get away with stuff? I think Mr. Kim Jong-Il should watch Team America to find out what happens when you mess with us... :lol:

[Pakman3000]

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/100519-koreaShp-hmed-628p.rp600x350.jpg

Looks like it was sunk by a North Korean torpedo :x
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411/ns ... iapacific/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411/ns/world_news-asiapacific/)

[BlackarrowPSN]

http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20100519_video_dispatch_south_koreas_future_options

It looks like the South Koreans' best options at the moment are to increase antisubmarine capability in the Yellow Sea. While the stated intent would be to help defend against the North Koreans, the nation that really will feel the pressure from this is China. And that of course is the true intent, assuming South Korea takes this course of action. Put pressure on China, and perhaps China will apply pressure to the North Koreans. There is little else that can be done at present. The U.N. won't do a damn thing, and Obama is unlikely to press hard for action since he is busy trying to get the Iranian sanctions ramped up and doesn't want to piss off the Chinese.

[BravoTwoZero]

It's about a good time to get those damn South Koreans to do something about the bully on the block instead of walking to the PX, Chow Hall, and back!!!

[River_Rat_459]

It's about a good time to get those damn South Koreans to do something about the bully on the block instead of walking to the PX, Chow Hall, and back!!!

You forgot taking the day off for Children's Day, Grandparents Day, Alphabet Day, and KATUSA Day...on top of all of the American holidays.

[Pakman3000]

It's about a good time to get those damn South Koreans to do something about the bully on the block instead of walking to the PX, Chow Hall, and back!!!

You forgot taking the day off for Children's Day, Grandparents Day, Alphabet Day, and KATUSA Day...on top of all of the American holidays.

LMAO. I remember showing up to work and having no civies there because of all the holidays. :lol:

[Timmy_2_Tones]

I have now just read all of this and I have to say that it is about dam time that someone gets in there and stomps the hell out of North Korea. Then Bitch Slaps and Tea-Bags Kim Jong-Ill. :twisted:

[saviger]

LETS KICK ASS!!!

Someone call the Prez and tell him weapons free on the MLRS, and send the troops North!

[JHC9o]

While it would be nice to finally end the Korean war, the main problem is still the same one we faced in the 50's.

China.

North Korea was created as a buffer nation between the commies and the west. China wants to maintain that buffer. Are they willing to prop it up if it means committing their forces to face us again?

I have no doubt that we could destroy the North's military. I do have doubts that we could do it without burning Seoul to the ground and without Chinese intervention.

We could win the battle, but how about the peace?

Are we even in a postion to commit the resources necessary at this time. Starting a third war before drawing down the two we are engaged in seems a bit reckless to me.

Just my .02

[saviger]

While it would be nice to finally end the Korean war, the main problem is still the same one we faced in the 50's.

China.

North Korea was created as a buffer nation between the commies and the west. China wants to maintain that buffer. Are they willing to prop it up if it means committing their forces to face us again?

I have no doubt that we could destroy the North's military. I do have doubts that we could do it without burning Seoul to the ground and without Chinese intervention.

We could win the battle, but how about the peace?

Are we even in a postion to commit the resources necessary at this time. Starting a third war before drawing down the two we are engaged in seems a bit reckless to me.

Just my .02

yeah yeah, I was just talking to timmy about this last night. China has been awfully quiet with everything that been going on in this situation.
Fact is they own to much of our debt, and we represent their largest market.

[CryptKper]

New development on this...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/06/15/un.north.korea/index.html



North Korea rejects torpedo findings, threatens war
By the CNN Wire Staff
June 15, 2010 9:23 p.m. EDT

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/06/15/un.north.korea/t1larg.jpgNorth Korea denies any responsibility in the sinking of the Cheonan. The South Korean ship's salvaged bow is pictured in April

United Nations (CNN) -- North Korea on Tuesday rejected international findings that it sank a South Korean ship, warning at the United Nations the dispute could lead to war.

"A war may break out any time," Ambassador Sin Son Ho said, accusing South Korea of "fabricating" the results of the investigation into the sinking of the Cheonan.

The loss of the ship and 46 sailors in March raised tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

North and South Korea presented their cases to the United Nations on Monday, and South Korea then urged the Security Council to take "timely and appropriate measures."

North Korea's envoy responded harshly Tuesday.

"If the Security Council releases any documents against us, condemning or pressuring us ... then myself as diplomat, I can do nothing. ... The follow-up measures will be carried out by our military forces," he said.

Why are the two Koreas so hostile?

U.N. Security Council President Claude Heller said Monday that the U.N. body is "gravely concerned" about the latest tensions.

Heller said the council is concerned over the potential "impact on peace and stability on the Korean peninsula" as a result of the March 26 sinking of the Cheonan in disputed waters.

"We presented and explained to [the council] the evidence that the Cheonan was sunk by a torpedo, which was made in North Korea, and launching was also done by a North Korean ... submarine," said Yoon Duk-yong, a science and physics professor serving as a civilian expert on the South Korean panel.

Yoon said the findings were based on evidence recovered after the sinking, including an intact piece of the torpedo with propellers, steering plates and a motor.

"We hope that on the basis of these findings," he said, "the Security Council will take timely and appropriate measures against the provocation of North Korea against the naval ship of the Republic of Korea."

But North Korea's ambassador disputed the international findings, comparing them to "some kind of fiction in Aesop's Fables."

"The 'investigation result' is a complete fabrication from A to Z," he said.

The council is calling on both sides "to refrain from any act that could escalate tensions in the region," Heller said.

The two-hour meeting was held behind closed doors Monday afternoon and was also attended by U.S., Australian, British, Swedish and Canadian scientific experts who had participated in the investigation.

The Japanese ambassador to the United Nations made brief remarks following the two nations' presentations, saying "there is no other explanation" than that the South Korean ship was sunk by a North Korean torpedo.

"I think the council should react in a decisive manner, but at the same time try to avoid any act which may provoke" a retaliatory attack, Ambassador Yukio Takasu said.

North Korea repeatedly has denied any responsibility in the sinking.

Heller said a decision has not yet been made on how to respond to the incident.

"The Security Council will continue its consultations," he said.

[Ironhide400]

It is not looking good. I hope they peacefully get this mess straightened out.
That is a crazy pic though! :roll: How in the hell did they get that ship on top of that barge? :shock:

[saviger]

It is not looking good. I hope they peacefully get this mess straightened out.
That is a crazy pic though! :roll: How in the hell did they get that ship on top of that barge? :shock:

They did the same thing to the USS Cole
http://www.sailfinalstraw.com/Dockwise/USS%20Cole.jpg

[Ironhide400]

WOW! Really....does anyone know how they do that? I am going to have to talk to my friend google! :lol:

If anyone else is interested.....

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... lo-flo.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/flo-flo.htm)

Thats crazy, the barge is semi-submersible!