A very deep, insightful article...please read and comment.

[River_Rat_459]

I really hope everyone in the clan --whether or not you have ever served-- will take the time to read this article through. Once you do, please share your thoughts. I think this piece says quite a bit.

"In the 10th Year of War, a Harder Army, a More Distant America"
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09...stant-america/

[MAKAVELI x28]

Wow! That article was very educational to those who have not served and for me, well... That is why we are who we are and no one will ever understand us better than our military brethren. Semper Fi!
Great find, glad you found it!

[ladym123]

Yes it's sad River :-(

I went to a gig last year at some student venue to see my daughter's band...anyway I got talking to this random young guy in the queue (Even now I'm not sure if he was actually with friends or alone) Anyway he'd just got back from Iraq and was definitely a loner ...even if he did originally go out with friends.

So I was like ...tell me all about it ...how awful was it...what's it really like etc etc. He was a tortured soul and talked about it and nothing else (obviously) which was fine as I was genuinely interested.

By the end of the night he gave me a big hug and left...wandered off down the street alone. I felt really bad for him.

On the other hand though, there has been talk over here all week about the army cutting back on soldiers etc and that has been challenged by media/public etc saying how we should be encouraging all these young people who have no direction in life (no job...prospects etc) to join up and make something of themselves...learn responsibility...discipline...control etc.

Then you get the many comments backing this up from older people, who say the army changed their life for the better all those years ago and that it would make a better country in the future if we got these kids off the streets and signed them up.

But I'm moving away from the main topic now I suppose, and that is the effects of war on these soldiers not the army in general.

Anyway, you asked for comments so I made one...I don't have first hand experience in order have a strong opinion I suppose...but I do try and empathise

[Bull3tBait]

It is so true how clueless the US Citizens are. I could never ever in a million years put myself in any of your shoes. The article is very deep and my eyes were opened to things I didn't know some of you felt. I know of the sacrifices you give, as a DoD Civilian we are reminded everyday at work that everything we do is for the Warfighter. We took an oath of service to that effect. But we really only see one side of it. The side that the warfighter in the field tells us what you need to do your job more effectively and keep you safer and we try to make that happen for you if we can or at the very least for the next generation of warfighters. The deeper impacts, the disconnect between you and the citizens of the country you protect are heartbreaking.

I don't know how the other Forts are but at mine there are war protesters that come out almost every weekend, with thier signs all saying Stop the War, Honk if you hate War and stuff to that effect. I get so angry I just want to run my van up the curb and give them a fright and tell them to get lost. I get even madder when ppl drive by and honk to support these jerks. They should be thanking you brave men and women the ungrateful #@!!$% even if it does seem hollow to some of you.

I edited this because after re-reading what I wrote it sounded so self-centered to me and not at all what I was trying to get across.

[Amiable Horde]

insightful; sometimes it's hard to imagine how my persona was before i had been deployed or even joined the military. i'd say i haven't changed much; but then again as i look at the current life i lead compared to the life i was leading.. i would have to say that in true reasoning this article is closer to home than i think. It is harder and harder to relate to people who don't serve, not in the fact that we don't share anything in common but that the shared events of our lives effects us so differently. the shell keeps and pushes most of them away.

[Ironhide400]

That is a great article! Unfortunately, alot of civilians forget why they have the freedom to protest, and protest the wrong people. One thing that civilians tend to forget easily are the sacrifices that you all have had to make in your lives, and your family's lives. That is why I am a member here. I have no clue what you all are going through, but I want you to know I am thankful and I appreciate all you do. I try to support you guys anyway I can!

[MAKAVELI x28]

From personal experience my wife tells me all the time that I am not the same. That I don't show the same emotion as I did when we first got together. It hurts me because I guess I don't see it or maybe its that I just don't want to see it. I try to do everything I can to show her that I care and love her. I know she wont leave me and has never even brought that up because she knows it's not my fault and she knew what she was getting into when she married me. (I love her soo much for that )

Anybody else in the same position or even close?
It would be a relieve if I weren't the only.

[saviger]

thank you for this.... It has made me revise what my wife and VA counselor have been trying to tell me since I got back from my second deployment, I'm not the same person I was before.

The consequences of this unique milestone in American history are many -- the rise of a new warrior class,

I'm seeing this even in my classes at school, the "Vets" tend to gravitate towards each other and form a group, and un-intentionality ostracize ourselves from everyone else

[jxspyder]

From personal experience my wife tells me all the time that I am not the same. That I don't show the same emotion as I did when we first got together. It hurts me because I guess I don't see it or maybe its that I just don't want to see it. I try to do everything I can to show her that I care and love her. I know she wont leave me and has never even brought that up because she knows it's not my fault and she knew what she was getting into when she married me. (I love her soo much for that )

Anybody else in the same position or even close?
It would be a relieve if I weren't the only.

I'm not sure if it's the same, but I actually have much less control of my emotions nowadays. To the point that it's problematic in my life. It might not be much help in this context, but you're definitely not the only one who has trouble with emotions.

Oh, and Saviger....look no farther than here for that gravitational effect. Though it might not necessarily be ostracizing others, but rather finding deeper friendship and support through shared experiences.

[toby2533]

Good article and dig a little in to the biggest problem with the U.S. that only .08% protect the other 99.02% that in it self is an amzing number. I got out in 88 and have had up and downs. I have never really found the friendship I had with my bro's from the corps. I've lived in communities that my wife and myself are were the only vets, that really drove me nuts everyone ask the stupid questions. Now with the divide bewteen the have and the have nots growing sometimes I want to postal in meeting or at social events. I allways find that one other military guy who has back to the wall hold his drink and eyes scanning the crowd then we drink and bullshit until the GD social event is over. I think we will allways have that turd in the puchbowl feeling that we just don't fit in. That another reason we moved from dowtown Atlanta to now where central PA. I have more fun drinking with buddies at the VFW then at some silent auction for what ever charity. I also had trouble with anger and anxiety both of which I have learned to control. My wife also is good at getting a-holes away from me when she say I get that look that I'm about to get pissed. i more then the how many years you signed up for the change is for life. Even at the VFW when the Jarheads we start doiong shots and hoorahing that scares the shit out of the other people. sometimes I think they should just kick everyone out of someprt of the US and only vet to live there.

[River_Rat_459]

thank you for this.... It has made me revise what my wife and VA counselor have been trying to tell me since I got back from my second deployment, I'm not the same person I was before.

The consequences of this unique milestone in American history are many -- the rise of a new warrior class,

I'm seeing this even in my classes at school, the "Vets" tend to gravitate towards each other and form a group, and un-intentionality ostracize ourselves from everyone else

I think your last sentence pretty well sums up what I found most compelling about this article. Take for example the instance where the captain and his wife were going out to dinner. She tells him not to talk about the Army or the war. He says he doesn't have anything else to talk about. I often feel that way. I try to use the perspective of what's new and interesting in the little Army world I live in. I can tell most people I talk to just don't get it.

Indeed, the "warrior class" is very intriguing. I think this clan is somewhat of a personification of that idea. While we primarily share the common ground of gaming, it most definitely goes deeper than that. I find it much, much easier to communicate with everyone here than elsewhere on the 'net...even with my own family. The first time I spoke to someone from the clan over the phone (25th ID Vet), it was like I was speaking to an old buddy I hadn't seen in ages, even though he and I have never met face to face.

After reading this article, does anyone else (whether you have deployed or not) feel this is the case? Do you gravitate more towards fellow military members and look at the general public in a different way nowadays?

[ladym123]

Do you gravitate more towards fellow military members and look at the general public in a different way nowadays?

Yes River :?

Why is this...I wasn't even in the military... and neither am I American!

Oh dear...I need to sort my life out lol!

[Metalhead Brett]

The U.S. Army now begins its 10th continuous year in combat...

My math and memory may be slightly faded, but hasn't it only been 7 years since troops had been deployed? I'll admit I had to look it up and confirm my question, but 2001 was the year President Bush declared war then 2003 was the deployment year. Also, If it seems that I'm just hung-up on the opening statement. That's because that's all I bothered to read for now... I hate articles.

[Timmy_2_Tones]

The U.S. Army now begins its 10th continuous year in combat...

My math and memory may be slightly faded, but hasn't it only been 7 years since troops had been deployed? I'll admit I had to look it up and confirm my question, but 2001 was the year President Bush declared war then 2003 was the deployment year. Also, If it seems that I'm just hung-up on the opening statement. That's because that's all I bothered to read for now... I hate articles.

The war in Afghanistan started in 2001.

Soldiers thrive on that kind of responsibility. Lt. Col. Kevin Petit, who has served multiple combat tours, spoke of watching a scene in the film "The Hurt Locker,'' where the soldier comes home from dismantling IEDs in Iraq and at the supermarket with his wife is stunned by a gigantic display of cereal. To me, this spoke of America's consumer appetite. To Petit, though, it carried a different meaning: "See, it didn't matter what cereal he chose -- Froot Loops or Rice Krispies -- no difference! No consequences to what he decided. But in a combat zone, everything, every decision, has consequences, some enormous. That's thrilling! That's why we keep going back!''

This is the first time I have seen someone take as much away from this scene as I did. It is absolutely true, mediocrity rules our lives at home, the problem is that mediocrity is what is important to most civilians.

From personal experience my wife tells me all the time that I am not the same. That I don't show the same emotion as I did when we first got together. It hurts me because I guess I don't see it or maybe its that I just don't want to see it. I try to do everything I can to show her that I care and love her. I know she wont leave me and has never even brought that up because she knows it's not my fault and she knew what she was getting into when she married me. (I love her soo much for that )

Anybody else in the same position or even close?
It would be a relieve if I weren't the only.

You are not alone buddy, I died in Iraq, and from that I forged a new harder, emotionally unattached, disdainful, warrior. Now I am stuck in a mediocre, uneventful life. Granted I have my wife and two beautiful children, but outside of them this life is not what I want.

Nobody will ever understand what we as Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors have gone through in Combat. Also, I have a really hard time believing that most Civilians truly give a shit about what we did out there.

[ladym123]

Forgive me guys if I'm speaking out of turn here but what about those who didn't come back? I'll bet they are be rooting for those of you who did (somewhere up there) to live your lives to the fullest? Don't you owe it to them to do just that? If they had the choice they would be here with their families...surely life is too precious and too short, and you must try to see it from that perspective... in order to enjoy the rest of your lives?

I feel really bad for you all when I read the stuff you have been through and are still going through...but I also feel bad that you are potentially missing out on so much

Hugs to you all

[Warhammer0351]

thank you for this.... It has made me revise what my wife and VA counselor have been trying to tell me since I got back from my second deployment, I'm not the same person I was before.

The consequences of this unique milestone in American history are many -- the rise of a new warrior class,

I'm seeing this even in my classes at school, the "Vets" tend to gravitate towards each other and form a group, and un-intentionality ostracize ourselves from everyone else

I think your last sentence pretty well sums up what I found most compelling about this article. Take for example the instance where the captain and his wife were going out to dinner. She tells him not to talk about the Army or the war. He says he doesn't have anything else to talk about. I often feel that way. I try to use the perspective of what's new and interesting in the little Army world I live in. I can tell most people I talk to just don't get it.

Indeed, the "warrior class" is very intriguing. I think this clan is somewhat of a personification of that idea. While we primarily share the common ground of gaming, it most definitely goes deeper than that. I find it much, much easier to communicate with everyone here than elsewhere on the 'net...even with my own family. The first time I spoke to someone from the clan over the phone (25th ID Vet), it was like I was speaking to an old buddy I hadn't seen in ages, even though he and I have never met face to face.

After reading this article, does anyone else (whether you have deployed or not) feel this is the case? Do you gravitate more towards fellow military members and look at the general public in a different way nowadays?

I'm pretty much the same way. I really don't trust ANYBODY unless they have served. That's just the way I am. I try to be more open to people, but for some reason I can't. My wife doesn't really understand why i'm the way I am, but she still supports me no matter what. And I love her dearly for that. When "THEY" don't understand, she at least tries to! Semper Fi!!!

[Warhammer0351]

[quote=Timmy_2_Tones]

The U.S. Army now begins its 10th continuous year in combat...

My math and memory may be slightly faded, but hasn't it only been 7 years since troops had been deployed? I'll admit I had to look it up and confirm my question, but 2001 was the year President Bush declared war then 2003 was the deployment year. Also, If it seems that I'm just hung-up on the opening statement. That's because that's all I bothered to read for now... I hate articles.

The war in Afghanistan started in 2001.

Soldiers thrive on that kind of responsibility. Lt. Col. Kevin Petit, who has served multiple combat tours, spoke of watching a scene in the film "The Hurt Locker,'' where the soldier comes home from dismantling IEDs in Iraq and at the supermarket with his wife is stunned by a gigantic display of cereal. To me, this spoke of America's consumer appetite. To Petit, though, it carried a different meaning: "See, it didn't matter what cereal he chose -- Froot Loops or Rice Krispies -- no difference! No consequences to what he decided. But in a combat zone, everything, every decision, has consequences, some enormous. That's thrilling! That's why we keep going back!''

This is the first time I have seen someone take as much away from this scene as I did. It is absolutely true, mediocrity rules our lives at home, the problem is that mediocrity is what is important to most civilians.

From personal experience my wife tells me all the time that I am not the same. That I don't show the same emotion as I did when we first got together. It hurts me because I guess I don't see it or maybe its that I just don't want to see it. I try to do everything I can to show her that I care and love her. I know she wont leave me and has never even brought that up because she knows it's not my fault and she knew what she was getting into when she married me. (I love her soo much for that )

Anybody else in the same position or even close?
It would be a relieve if I weren't the only.

You are not alone buddy, I died in Iraq, and from that I forged a new harder, emotionally unattached, disdainful, warrior. Now I am stuck in a mediocre, uneventful life. Granted I have my wife and two beautiful children, but outside of them this life is not what I want.

Nobody will ever understand what we as Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors have gone through in Combat. Also, I have a really hard time believing that most Civilians truly give a shit about what we did out there.[/quote:2fk0v2bq]


Same here as well! I don't know how to put all the quotes in one post! Anywho, I am certainly a different man now than before my 2 deployments. My wife doesn't get that I don't like to be out past a certain time (after dark), and stuff like that. I would rather stay in my home. That's my Green Zone. Weird huh? I'm only 33! I should maybe take her out to dinner or a movie or something! But I can't. I don't even like to go to bars or clubs anymore. I would rather drink at my house where I KNOW it's safe. She calls me a party pooper sometimes, but she is just picking on me. She knows about some of the stuff that I went thru, but not everything. Those are MY demons to deal with. Even if they kill me someday(not really), I don't think I could ever get the nerve to tell my WHOLE story to her. Am I wrong for that? Semper Fi!!

[Warhammer0351]

Forgive me guys if I'm speaking out of turn here but what about those who didn't come back? I'll bet they are be rooting for those of you who did (somewhere up there) to live your lives to the fullest? Don't you owe it to them to do just that? If they had the choice they would be here with their families...surely life is too precious and too short, and you must try to see it from that perspective... in order to enjoy the rest of your lives?

I feel really bad for you all when I read the stuff you have been through and are still going through...but I also feel bad that you are potentially missing out on so much

Hugs to you all

Once again, I don't know how to put all these together in one post, so please forgive me. As far as trying to live my life after seeing my friends die....well I have tried. I myself have tried to have fun. But when I start having too much fun, my mind drifts off (unintentionally) to thinking, "Damn, if only "so-and-so" was here! He would love it!" Its not easy. Even after being out of the Corps for 6 years now, I still have difficulties. Every so often the flashbacks come at nights. Another reason I don't like being out after dark. But I am still learning to live with it. Hey, shit happens. I can only do the best I can do. Mentally, my wife thinks i'm fucked up! Lol!! But she says she is one of the safest persons in Texas! LOL!! She knows I would do whatever it would take to protect her and what we have. If me having to do something like that to save her, then I would say 'Yes', my fallen buddies would be smiling on me. That's my job as a Marine. To protect and defend. As was theirs....God Bless to ALL that have served, rather of Branch. And God Bless the KIA/MIA also! Semper Fi!!

[Warhammer0351]

Forgive me guys if I'm speaking out of turn here but what about those who didn't come back? I'll bet they are be rooting for those of you who did (somewhere up there) to live your lives to the fullest? Don't you owe it to them to do just that? If they had the choice they would be here with their families...surely life is too precious and too short, and you must try to see it from that perspective... in order to enjoy the rest of your lives?

I feel really bad for you all when I read the stuff you have been through and are still going through...but I also feel bad that you are potentially missing out on so much

Hugs to you all

Once again, I don't know how to put all these together in one post, so please forgive me. As far as trying to live my life after seeing my friends die....well I have tried. I myself have tried to have fun. But when I start having too much fun, my mind drifts off (unintentionally) to thinking, "Damn, if only "so-and-so" was here! He would love it!" Its not easy. Even after being out of the Corps for 6 years now, I still have difficulties. Every so often the flashbacks come at nights. Another reason I don't like being out after dark. But I am still learning to live with it. Hey, shit happens. I can only do the best I can do. Mentally, my wife thinks i'm fucked up! Lol!! But she says she is one of the safest persons in Texas! LOL!! She knows I would do whatever it would take to protect her and what we have. If me having to do something like that to save her, then I would say 'Yes', my fallen buddies would be smiling on me. That's my job as a Marine. To protect and defend. As was theirs....God Bless to ALL that have served, rather of Branch. And God Bless the KIA/MIA also! Semper Fi!!

[Warhammer0351]

Forgive me guys if I'm speaking out of turn here but what about those who didn't come back? I'll bet they are be rooting for those of you who did (somewhere up there) to live your lives to the fullest? Don't you owe it to them to do just that? If they had the choice they would be here with their families...surely life is too precious and too short, and you must try to see it from that perspective... in order to enjoy the rest of your lives?

I feel really bad for you all when I read the stuff you have been through and are still going through...but I also feel bad that you are potentially missing out on so much

Hugs to you all

Once again, I don't know how to put all these together in one post, so please forgive me. As far as trying to live my life after seeing my friends die....well I have tried. I myself have tried to have fun. But when I start having too much fun, my mind drifts off (unintentionally) to thinking, "Damn, if only "so-and-so" was here! He would love it!" Its not easy. Even after being out of the Corps for 6 years now, I still have difficulties. Every so often the flashbacks come at nights. Another reason I don't like being out after dark. But I am still learning to live with it. Hey, shit happens. I can only do the best I can do. Mentally, my wife thinks i'm fucked up! Lol!! But she says she is one of the safest persons in Texas! LOL!! She knows I would do whatever it would take to protect her and what we have. If me having to do something like that to save her, then I would say 'Yes', my fallen buddies would be smiling on me. That's my job as a Marine. To protect and defend. As was theirs....God Bless to ALL that have served, rather of Branch. And God Bless the KIA/MIA also! Semper Fi!!

[Warhammer0351]

Sorry about all the reposts....my computer was actin up.

[ladym123]

Sorry about all the reposts....my computer was actin up.

It all makes you sound completely normal and human to me...If you didn't feel that way and understand why you did...then yeah THEN you maybe crazy ;-)

I hope time really does heal and you manage to find peace with yourself.

[Warhammer0351]

Sorry about all the reposts....my computer was actin up.

It all makes you sound completely normal and human to me...If you didn't feel that way and understand why you did...then yeah THEN you maybe crazy ;-)

I hope time really does heal and you manage to find peace with yourself.

Peace within myself is just a dream...My hardest kill that I live with is a 7 year old kid that was shootin at me with an Ak. I dropped him with my M9. Justify that to me in my head...Semper Fi!!!

[toby2533]

Warhammer brother if you ever need to BS jus shot me an email. I'm 45 been through the same feeling as you. You just learn to adapt them to your life. You just wait extra time for a table to eat with your back at the wall. You drink heavy at home and socially in public. You control your life remember that. The Band of brothers prrinciples (a card I have carried in my wallet since 84) the 11th is a brotherhood depends on all Marine's feeling that they belong and are accepted as brothers. Semper Fi

[Warhammer0351]

First Thank you for being there and allowing me to vent. Tonight for some reason is not a good night for me, I am having a tough time with my memories. You have pin pointed me to the T, yes I do drink heavily at home to try and forget the bad memories, I am in tears as I read all these posts and am reminded of the things that have happened in the past and cant seem to get over them or seem to be able to put them in the past. "what sad is I remember killing and seeing the smiles on my friends faces That is what haunts me" 30 confirmed kills is bad and that is what haunts me. My hardest kill was described above. I remeber when one terrorist on patrol tried to stab a knife in my kevlar and I had to pull my M9 and put to his chin and kill him, I was ok with that but then the kid came around the corner with an AK, I droped to my knee, reload and put 3 rounds to his chest, this is what haunts me. The sick part of it was I didnt mind blowing the guys head off "he stabbed me first" but it hurt me really bad to shoot a kid. This is the memory I cannot get out of my head no matter how much I drink myself stupid I cannot find closure or peace with this memory. My wife tries to help thru it but poor thing she just has no clue what to say or do to make it better but she tries really hard.